Half Life Show

8: Book Club - The Giving Tree

Jan 21, 22 | 00:27:31

Subu
Welcome to another episode of the half live show where we obsess about what it takes to live a meaningful life. I'm Subu, and my longtime friend and co host Vikram is here with me. So a quick follow up from our new year episode. Vikram, you recommended that I listened to the Martian in its audiobook form, right?
Vikram
How did you like it?
Subu
I loved it! Oh my god, I had previously watched the movie, so I didn't bother picking up the book. But then I listened to the audiobook. And you're right. It's really different. And it's worth listening to the audiobook. Even if you've watched the movie, I thoroughly enjoyed it. I did like a marathon listening session over two days. And I think it is about 11 hours, the whole audiobook size. So I think I finished it in a couple of days. And at the end of it, I was left wanting for more, because the style of writing and everything is so so much fun, especially, you know, for engineers, I guess. So what I did was, I saw that Andy Weir has written a new book, which released earlier sometime in 2021. And I decided to pick up the audio book again. And even, the book is called Hail Mary. And it's one more of those sci fi odyssey kind of stuff. Coming from the Martian to Hail Mary, a lot of stuff feels very familiar. He goes into the engineering details, and it's a lot of fun. I really enjoyed Hail Mary. It is it is really, really good. And now I've pretty I've run out of Audible credits for the month. So I'm waiting for my next credit to show up so that I can pick up his first book, which is Artemis, which is one more of it. So it doesn't have as good reviews as the Martian or Hail Mary, but I just I've been enjoying his style of writing so much that I feel like I have to pick up the only book of his which I haven't read, which is Artemis.
Vikram
Which did you listen to first Martian or Hail Mary?
Subu
First was Martian.
Vikram
Oh, you finished Hail Mary already?
Subu
Yeah, I did. I did the same thing. So I even Hail Mary, I listened to it over over like two or three days. And I, man it was any chance I could get? I would listen to it. So for over two or three days, I really cleaned up the house because I was looking for chores to do.
Vikram
Well, there is a motivator. Remember, you're one of the things that you mentioned in the last episode of how you want to get things done immediately and not delay. You're right. You just have to find the right audio book apparently.
Subu
That's correct. Yeah. A good audio book is like a good catalyst for cleaning up your house.
Vikram
Based on your recommendation offline that you told me I've been listening to We Are Anonymous, it is very interesting, actually. And kind of scary in a way. We Are Anonymous is about a bunch of hackers who got together to play pranks on people online. Mostly, that's how it all began. And then it evolved into hacking some pretty major institutions became activism by hackers. So it started being called hacktivism. So that's how far I've gotten. There are a lot of instances and stories of people and their lives behind it and all that stuff. But maybe we should talk about it at length. In a separate episode. This is a very interesting topic we should address at some point, you know, privacy, and what it means in the new age.
Subu
Correct, Correct. Yeah, I think we should totally and you know, just to clarify, the book We Are Anonymous that Vikram is listening to, it's a nonfiction book. It's a real life story of how these hackers operated and what kind of information they got access to. And the reason why they were doing this, this whole hacktivism thing. So yeah, we should save this for the full episode.
Vikram
These are all books that are like so serious. And you know, full of the adult world, right. But there are so many books out there that we can talk about that are kids books, but are amazing.
Subu
Yeah, so maybe we should use this point to jump into our topic for this episode. Now, welcome to the half life show's very first book club episode. All right. So when we started this podcast Vikram and I, we are pretty sure that one of the sort of ongoing series that we wanted to have is on a regular basis review books and talk about what we think of it. For this episode it took us a while to figure out which book we wanted to review. Right? And, you know, when we were tossing around some ideas, I picked some of the usual ones I asked him Hey, should we do one of the popular books like atomic habits, or should we do something from more physics or mathematics kind of a book or what we should pick? Somehow all of these popular books, it didn't excite us as much. When my family and I were over at your place for the Thanksgiving break, it just occurred to us that, you know, maybe we should talk about a kid's book, there is so many lessons to be learned, even for adults from these children's books. And as adults, we want to teach our kids valuable lessons. And we choose books which have a good message in them. When, as an adult, when I read some of these books to my kid, I realized that you know what, this is a good lesson, not only for the child, but it's also for me, as a parent, as an adult. There are lessons in these children's books, which we have forgotten. So then, Vikram and I decided that maybe we should go back to the basics and pick one of these children's books that we have read to our children, which have influenced our thinking. And so then that's how we arrived at this book, which you want to tell us which book they're going to review today.
Vikram
All right. This one is a classic, and is from one of my favorite authors. It's The Giving Tree by Shel Silverstein. I'm a very big fan of Shel Silverstein. And honestly, you know, I never read Shel Silverstein books as a child, I guess I didn't come across them. Or nobody recommended it to me at the time, or my parents didn't know about it. There could be several reasons. But I found them. Only recently when I got books for my own kids, to read to them. And I enjoy everything that Shel Silverstein has written from all his poems to his stories. It's his he's just an amazing person. And I'm a very big fan. Think I should quickly go through the books, maybe if somebody hasn't read it, like me last year, it could be a good starting point. It's pretty short, it would serve as a basis for you know what we'll talk about later about this book.
Subu
Go for it!
Vikram
Then a really nice thing about Shel Silverstein books are the illustrations. They are really beautiful. And this is something that you have to see in the book, obviously, but when I go through the quick summary of the book, I'll try to describe what the picture is like so that you know, the listener gets a good picture of what I'm looking at, basically, there was this tree. And she really loved the little boy who would come to the tree every day. And the boy would play with the leaves, sleep in the shade, eat the apples, or climb up her trunk and swing from the branches and all this stuff. And the boy loved the tree and the tree loved the boy, the tree was very happy. And on this page, there is a little heart that says "Me + Tree", you know, made by the boy, etched onto the trunk. It's very nice. But then, you know time went by and the boy is now older. And this page there is another heart that says "Me + YL" I'm not sure who that is. But that is etched on top of me plus three, you know the heart to the me plus tree. And under the tree now is interesting because there are now two pairs of legs right? So it's him and his like loved one who's sitting under the tree. And the tree was often alone now because the boy never came back. Right? So the boy is now let's say, I don't know 20 years old I would imagine my guess the boy comes back to the tree and the tree said oh boy have come back come and you know play with me swing from my branches. You know play in my shed. The boy said I don't want to play anymore. But I need money. So can you give me money instead? Tree said no, I don't have money. I only have leaves and apples. So the boy takes the apples from the tree and sells them to make money. And the tree was happy because the tree could provide and then now the boy has grown up to become a middle aged man comes back to the tree. And the tree looking at this much older boy is extremely happy said Come Come play with me climb my trunk I've been waiting for you, come with me. And but the middle aged man says I'm too busy to climb trees when I need a house. I want a wife I want children. So I need a house. Can you give me a house the tree says I don't have a house. But I have branches. So take branches and make yourself a house. So he takes away all the branches from the tree. But the tree was still happy. Now the boy disappears for a long time again never comes back to the tree. But when he does, he is now pretty old person. Okay, he's an old man. But the tree was so happy she could hardly speak said come by come I'm I want to play come and play with me. And the boy said I'm too old and tired. I can't play with you but I want a boat that will take me away from here. So can you give me a boat? The tree says take my trunk make yourself a boat then you can be happy and you can sail away. And this is a really interesting thing because he cuts the tree exactly where you know the heart with the Me plus YL. You know he takes that part and he leaves behind the heart with the Me plus tree. Oh But the tree was happy but not really. After a very long time now he's very old man comes back to the tree, but the tree tells him, I'm sorry, I don't have anything left to give you. All My apples are gone. The boy says I don't have any teeth to eat your apples. The branches are gone, you cannot swing on them. Boy says I am too old to swing on branches. Then my tree trunk has gone too. You cannot climb the tree. So, I'm too tired to climb. The tree is very sad that the tree can't give anything to the boy. She said I'm sorry, I wish I could give you something I have nothing left. I'm just an old stump, she says, I'm sorry. The old man says I don't need very much. Now I just need a quiet place to sit and rest. I'm very tired. And now the tree suddenly gets excited and straightens herself up, says Well, an old stump like me is good for sitting and resting. So come by and sit down, sit and sit down and rest on me. And the old man now sits on the tree stump. And the tree was happy again.
Subu
I get tingles every time I listen to it.
Vikram
It really is quite amazing. How pictures and words can portray, you know emotions every time you read the same thing.
Subu
Yeah. So this thing is like a classic example of a parable. Right? I mean, so there is this a story and it has a message underneath it. But he's not saying what the message is. So I feel there is a lot of different messages that can that you can interpret from the story. But what do you think it is? What's the, what did you take away.
Vikram
So when I first read the story, and read it many times after, I always liken the tree to a parent kind of thing. I did feel sad for some time. But then I was like, You know what? It's unconditional love. And that's okay. There's nothing wrong with that the tree really loved the boy and would do anything for the boy. And I likened it to what a parent would do for their child, even when you're old and tired, you'd still do whatever you can for your child. So that was the first takeaway that I got from the book, what was yours,
Subu
My initial impression of the story, or the lesson that I took away from the story is I put myself in the shoes of the boy instead of the tree. And I felt that, you know, as a child, we are carefree. And we love, you know, this kid loved the tree unconditionally. And there was very little that the little boy needed to be happy, which is you know, swing from the tree, eat the apples, sleep under the shade of the tree. And that's all the kid needed to be happy. As a kid, this boy did this every day, he would come to the tree and play. But as he kept growing older, he got caught up in the cycle of life. He forgot about this tree completely which which he enjoyed so much growing up, and the next time he comes back, he tells the tree that, look, I don't want to play with you. What I need is money. And that is where my heart sank. It's like, oh, man, you know this. As a child, he was so innocent. It seemed to me like, in some ways, growing up corrupted his mind, his mindset, his ideas. And like every other human, coming back and asking for money essentially means that you know, you sort of know where his mind is going.
Vikram
But you say that as if money is a bad thing. He says in this book, The boy who comes asks for money says I want a wife, I want children. So I guess at that time in his life, he needs money, because that's what he has to do. And he doesn't have any other way of getting it. He has the tree. I mean, not a bad thing, necessarily.
Subu
You're right, actually, you're right. It's not a bad thing necessarily. So but I guess why my heart sank was that, for one, when he no longer needed the tree, he went away, he comes back 20 years later, when he needed something from the tree. He sort of comes back only when he needs something. To me, it seems like the material world has gotten the better of him. He has lost empathy and sympathy and his innocence in the act of the materialistic world, taking over his thoughts and ideas. He is coming back to the to only when he needs it. It's fine that you know he is at a stage of his life where he wants a family and where he wants money. But I kind of felt that he has become a materialistic person. My heart sort of also sank because I kind of feel like this is what happens to us as adults as well. We have in a way become materialistic that we needed very little as children to make us happy to give us joy. And we took care of the things that we owned a lot better than we do as adults. You know, we have lesser respect for the things that used to have us joy.
Vikram
Yeah, for sure. I think happiness in the simple things has gone away as you get older, and trying to find that is very hard as an adult, but it's something that we should continuously keep trying.
Subu
When you read the story, you immediately put yourself in the shoes of the tree, and thought of yourself as the parent. And that's the role that your mind played. And in my case, I sort of filled in the shoes of the boy and said, man, okay, you know, this is such a materialistic world.
Vikram
That's the beauty of this book.
Subu
Yeah, yeah. And so even though the story was written in the 1960s, I feel that it is more relevant today. In especially in this world of fast fashion, where people you know, like to shop, and when you clothes very often, and then you know, you you buy something this week, and in next month, you even forget that you've you purchased this shirt and pants, it's like six or eight months later, when you're cleaning out your cupboard. You, you look at say, oh, and when did I buy this? I didn't even know I own this. We don't take as good care of the things that we buy as we should?
Vikram
Yeah, definitely. I think that's something we should keep and teach our children as well. Because the moment they lose something, especially my kids, the moment they lose something, they're not getting another one replaced, or, you know, in any reasonably short timeframe, they have started to learn to take care of their things to you know, the funny thing is that this whole book in 1964, or whenever it was published, was not loved by everybody immediately. Shel Silverstein spent four years trying to convince publishers to publish this book. Wow. Because everybody turned him away. And because this is like, who writes a children's book that is so dark, and grave. Right? Right. So one person described it as like, It's too sad for kids, and too simple for adults. So refuse to publish it. And, you know, it took him a long time until it was ultimately picked up by HarperCollins. They made only like 7500 books initially. But then today, the book has sold like 10s of millions of copies. Nice, classic.
Subu
Yeah, continuing my take away from that book, right. Like, my side of the story, or my interpretation of the book, you said that, you know, this is a great story to teach our kids great lesson for them to learn. I was thinking that, you know, this is a great lesson not only for the kids to live by, but also I want my whole family to live by the sentiment, which is, you know, anything we buy, we don't take it for granted. And one way of thinking about it, which sort of makes it easy for a human, I guess is that, say, you know, you work a day job, right, as a parent, and you by working a day job, you have essentially, exchanged your time, which is your one and only valuable resource, you have exchange your time for money, right? Using this money, which is essentially a representation of your time in order to buy these clothes, buy toys, by whatever it may be. So when you should take good care of the things that you buy, because you exchanged your valuable time in order to purchase that.
Vikram
You mean, you've spent your valuable time working to make money, and then that money you use to buy this thing. So you have used time to buy this material thing you own?
Subu
Exactly, exactly. So now I think with this equation, right? I think people may be able to appreciate better, you know the value of the of this object that they have purchased. In general, if you live life in this way, where you have more respect, and you treat the things that you buy with more care, then I think it changes your personality also for the good. And what I mean by that is, if you develop this habit, if you nurture this habit in yourself, even as an adult, then I think what it will lead to is you will tend to appreciate life's little joys a lot more, and you will experience contentment a lot more often. Yeah.
Vikram
Apparently Shel Silverstein also like had a thing against happy endings, you know, like, his perception on what a child should take away from a story like this, or anybody for that matter, since you're saying that this extends to everybody. This mindset is that I mean, I'm gonna like I wrote it down actually says, the child asks, you know why I don't have this happiness thing you're telling me about, you know, every story ends in a happy way. So the child is going to ask you How come I don't have this happy feeling all the time that you're telling me everything is supposed to have this conclusion of happiness, right? And then it comes, the child will come to think that his joy stops, because he has failed, right? And that joy will never come back again. Like Why does everything have to have a happy ending? You know, like, what about a sad ending? It's nothing wrong with that. True, that is true. Don't always expect happiness out of life. Yeah,
Subu
that's a good one. Actually. That's a great one. I mean, in a way, if you are if you approach To expect happiness all the time, then maybe in a way that leads to a better chance for depression. I mean, because you will be upset a lot more often, if something doesn't work out, then you're very quick to get upset.
Vikram
Yeah, it's always not about pursuing happiness all the time for yourself, can be viewed sometimes as a selfish goal. For a person who is actually part of a greater whole in society. Like everybody is pursuing their own version of happiness. And that's all it is. That is not always beneficial to humankind as a whole, okay, it's that that's not where it's supposed to go, you know, we all have to worry and take care of things around us, our planet, friends, and so it's not always about happiness. So that's why he actually doesn't like happy endings. And, you know, this particular book was actually banned from a public library in Colorado to you know, why this is banned. That's strange, because they believe that this book is sexist. You know why? Because the tree is referred to as a she, the whole book. And it's all about this boy continuously taking from her without giving anything back to her. So they deem this book sexist, and they banned it from a library. Just rather extreme. Okay, it's just a book from yeah,
Subu
That's a bit unfortunate that that's what they took away from it. I mean, because, like, think about it. I mean, we always when we think about things in nature, we do give it a certain gender. I mean, like, we always call it Mother Earth. So as a species, I mean, we should we need to take better care of this Mother Earth who is providing us and not keep taking.
Vikram
I asked my older one, what his interpretation of this book is. And he's like, Yeah, it's interesting that I observed that, you know, this man, or boy takes stuff only from one tree. And that's far better than taking, you know all the trees, right?
Subu
Oh,
Vikram
I like okay, that's huh. That's an interesting point. Yeah, I guess it's good to take from one tree.
Subu
It's a totally different thing I never thought of. Yeah, that's totally the I never thought of that either.
Vikram
We're all feeling sorry for this one tree. But you know, he's seeing the bright side of life, like, you know, people cut on all the trees these days. I mean, if everybody could take one tree, that's not bad. Yeah, yeah. That is very, that is amazing.
Subu
Good. So we have analyzed my takeaway from the story. Now I want to drill a little bit deeper on what your interpretation of the story is, which is, okay, the tree is like a parent. And, you know, essentially, the tree has been unconditionally giving, whatever the kid asks for, right? Do you have more to add to that?
Vikram
See, every time the tree tells the boy, take this thing from me and be happy, take the branches, take the apples be happy. You know, the tree never says, take my apples and make your money. Or take my apples, you know, he says, of course, you can build a boat and be happy. The tree always says Be happy. That's why I view it as a as an unconditional love of parent. Because if I would imagine if my child comes and says to me, I want to do this and that and like, yeah, okay, go go ahead. Are you happy doing this, you know, and if the boy took away the branches on the apples, and was happy, then the tree was happy, because throughout the book that he says, And the tree was happy, and the tree was happy, right? So you're happy when the boy is happy. So that's where my perception of it comes from.
Subu
Once adults have children, then the children become their whole life. At some point in time, you know, the children are going to grow up and the parents are going to become empty nesters, which means that you know, the kids are going to go off to college, they're going to get married and go away. And at that point, the there is this unfillable emptiness that the parents end up feeling. Because they have spent like 20-25 years, raising this child and the child has essentially consumed all their life and they have not done anything else in life. And so when it's time for the children to leave the nest, they kind of they're like 60 or 65 or 70 however old they are, and they kind of feel like oh man, they feel like it is the end of their life. They have pretty much there's nothing there's no reason for them to sort of continue living in a way and I kind of feel like that is a sort of a sad view on life. I don't want to be that way when I am like 65 or 70. You know, I know that at some point in time we will be empty nesters too. And at that point, it is okay. I mean it is natural. I we will feel sad that all our little child has grown up and doesn't need us anymore. I want to get over the sad feeling quickly and then I want to continue to have my life, my own life from say 60 to 75 or 80.
Vikram
What do you think? That's where the mentality of is your child happy? Is he or she happy? Okay, then you should be happy just like the tree was. The boy wanted to go away in a boat far away. Sure, could have felt sad that the boy was going away, but the tree was happy. But not really. Right. Okay,
Subu
but exactly. In the story, specifically, every time the boy went away, and you know, didn't come back for a long time, the tree did get sad.
Vikram
She did get sad. And that's normal. It's nothing wrong about feeling sad. I mean, you can feel sad about it. But at the end of the day, you know, the tree is still happy for the boy, okay? I mean, the separation is a real thing. And when people go away, you feel the distance. And that's part of being human. And it's nothing wrong in facing that humanity, that you will feel sad. If you see people who are close to you, very far away from you. But then you have to take solace in the fact that they are doing well they are happy. This is their life to lead. And you can only watch from the distance, like the watchful tree. Alright, so if anybody has not read this book, we highly recommend getting yourself a copy, because it's one of the classics. And there's a really interesting picture of Shel Silverstein in the back of this book. Yeah, so you should get it just for this picture.
Subu
Nice. And I also saw a animated version of the story narrated by Shel himself. We can add a link to that YouTube video in the show notes. Oh, that's nice. Okay, so that's it for this episode.
Vikram
We hope you enjoyed the book review. If you have any comments or suggestions on what we can do as future books, feel free to write to us on Instagram at half life show are on Twitter, also at half life show. That's right. See you next time.