Onepod Podcasts

Vikram

Hello, and welcome to another episode of the half life show. I'm Vikram here with my co host Subu. And we have a special episode for you.

Subu

Yes, today we have our very first guest on the show. We are joined by our very good friend Sampath Krishna. Now, Sampath and I go back a long way. We have been roommates. We've been classmates in grad school, bandmates, Sampath plays the Bass and we've even been colleagues working at the same place. Now, while Sampath works as a hardware engineer by day, his life outside work is a unique mix of adventure and introspection. He is an avid motorcyclist and has lived through experiences both good and bad on his long cross country trips. At other times, he spends a great deal of time looking within and developing inner focus. Today we have him on the show to discuss the what how and why of his lifestyle. Okay, Sampath welcome to the half life show.

Sampath

Hey, guys. Thanks for inviting me. I guess being the first guest is definitely no pressure, right? I heard your last podcast I think it was the book club. And I have to say one thing that after my dad, if I want to listen to anybody reading me bedtime stories, it will be Vikram.

Subu

That is really soothing.

Vikram

Did I put you to sleep?

Sampath

No, it was I think the way you kind of voiced the whole story. It was quite nice. The inflections and everything. Yeah, I should ask you to record a few and then send it over

Subu

ASMR right. I mean, there's a whole category of these videos on YouTube called ASMR. Which people it's just, it just sounds of people whispering and Airplane noises and things like that, which really soothe one part of the brain and really put you to sleep. So it looks like you have a future in ASMR, Vikram.

Vikram

Okay, let's start a new half live show section where you can come and we put you to sleep. You can go to bed, listening to our podcast, say the most boring things ever.

Subu

Since you brought up the last episode, can we take this moment to do I want to do a quick follow up? I mean, the negative Nancy that I am i i turned that whole book into such a depressive episode. Right? I I think I turned it into a totally a negative experience in a way. So after this episode, one of our friends messages us and tells us his takeaway He gives us an alternative ending that he thought of and this guy is is an eternal optimist. Vikram do you want to read his message?

Vikram

Sure, why not? So he says that the alternate ending for the book that he's going to give is like the old man spends a quiet day on the stump, and then returns the next day with his grandchild. And then they take the last twig growing from the stump and they graft it to another apple tree nearby. And the ending scene is the old man watching the grandkid playing under an apple tree. And an old man returning to a state of contentment he has had as a child and which he never had since until now.

Subu

Oh my God, man that guy breaks my heart. That is

Vikram

that is redemption.

Subu

That's just so beautiful. That he saw that and that and I was I kind of feel like it was such a negative Nancy.

Vikram

What do you got against Nancy? Yeah

Subu

Sampath you have you have a trip coming up right? You have a motorcycle trip coming up?

Sampath

Yes, I am planning on a trip to the Arctic Ocean. It's on the Canadian side actually. And I'm planning to do that this coming summer when things are a little bit warmer up north, the plan is to ride the motorcycle all the way up. Take a dip in the Arctic Ocean turn around.

Subu

Yeah, man. That is That sounds straight out of one of these Discovery Channel adventure episodes.

Vikram

I can almost hear David Attenborough's voice right now. Yeah. Commenting over Sampath's trip.

Subu

Yeah. So where are you going to start the bike ride? Is it going to be here in Bay Area? That's a long trip?

Sampath

Ideally, it would have been that would have been the case but this time around, I don't think I have the time. So I'm on a time crunch from work and other commitments. So I just have maybe I think about two weeks of window so I might squeeze what I can out of this. And that might mean squeeze out the ride from Bay Area to Canada, for example. So I might just truck my motorcycle to British Columbia. And then join up with my friend there and then ride all the way up to the Arctic Ocean and back actually, I'll drive a few days in advance. Get there and set it up. Make sure everything's good. My buddy up there is pretty good at fixing and setting up motorcycles so yeah, I'll do my best but then he it's good to have somebody more experienced to take a look at it before the long trip. What is your current ride? What will you be riding on this trip? Well my currently I just bought a Triumph Tiger 800 XCX, it's, gosh, it's I think it's 2017 or 2018 model. I don't remember. I should be knowing these things. But then I just got it a few months ago. And it is an older used motorcycle market in this country is crazy. You'll find people buying all these nice motorcycles setting them up and not really riding them and then just selling them so that they can buy another one to set up. So I can benefit of all that work. So yeah, I got this on, it's pretty much set up for adventure. Does everything aftermarket foot pegs and tunable suspension, extra mounts for carrying gas windscreens and whatever you want to call the right whatever you need on a long trip like this even gave me spare tires. So I have I don't need to buy new tires, just put off road tires on them and then have

Vikram

is this the maiden voyage? maiden voyage for this Triumph Motorcycle?

Sampath

Yes, it will be I do plan to make some small trips or maybe a small like weekend trips before I take off on the big one. So just to check out all the issues from it if it has any. I don't think so. These bikes are built

Vikram

pretty good. And this is definitely not your first trip on a long bike ride. Is this what do you say? Is it your fifth trip? Or how many have you done of these things?

Sampath

Because I don't think I've counted them. I haven't done so many that I can't count them. I'm sure I can count them but I don't know the number and it might not even be the longest trip I've done so far. That is for sure.

Subu

But this and this is not the first time you're going up north right?

Sampath

No, actually not. This is actually it's almost like a revenge mission. It's funny I was just watching the Avengers movie so I feel like an Avenger almost because I need to go and avenge my previous failure. So it took off on a solo right from the Bay Area to Alaska and back what my plan was to come back with the bike that was that didn't happen. So actually the plan was to get to the Arctic Circle and basically go through hit this place called Prudhoe Bay I think you go through the Dalton Highway which is an oil road almost on permafrost starts off from Fairbanks and goes all the way up to Prudhoe Bay it's it's one of those sought well very sought after destination rides for motorcyclists adventure motorcyclists. Everybody and their grandma have done it. Nothing unique it's nothing new. It still has a challenge to it aspect to it because you're you're sharing the roads with this big oil tankers. They're blowing dust and they don't have any real mercy for you. You just like no pesky, pesky, annoying motorcycles. Yeah. It's like get out of my way, you pretty much have to slow down and let the dust settle and then move on. I mean, I say that as if I know it, because but I don't. Because I haven't I never got to that part of the ride. I ended up having an accident. Just the day I entered Alaska from UConn. And it was bad enough that my bike got totalled and I had to basically go go to ER, and frankly, nothing no, no broken bones. The nurse said, yeah, you bounce. Good.

Subu

I want to know more about what happened with that, with that accident. I want to know, because you're probably in the middle of nowhere, right? Because I'm guessing that even if you crash in the middle of nowhere, it's not like, it's not like you can call 911 and expect someone to show up in a couple of minutes.

Sampath

Yeah, I mean, that's the that's the beauty of happenstance. Actually, I'll tell you, I made my way up north from you know, bay area in good time. Actually, I met with some friends and family on the way I stayed I took a longer break. And in Vancouver, I had a distant cousin who lived there and spent a couple of days just recharging myself and then pressed on further north and went through beautiful British Columbia. It's really really pretty no matter what time of the year you go, I'm guessing. I'm not much for cold. But I guess if there is a place you want to brave cold, probably British Columbia. And then I went to crossed into Yukon. And Yukon is also very pretty. It's something it's the stuff of the legends almost right, the weather got real bad. And I had to haul up in Haines junction, which is one of the towns in in Yukon, actually on the Canadian side, of course, and I had to wait out a storm there for a couple of days. And I had come to the point where I had to decide whether I need to continue or turn around because if the storm abates, yes great I can go further up north but then I could get stuck if the storm comes back. So but I almost decided to turn around when there was a sudden break in the weather kind of tracking it with the help of my friend and I found like we had a window of like five days so that's plenty I can make a run to Alaska and then come back and so I did that. So I went I took off I left Haines junction and then I got to the border. And then as I was getting close to the border, the US and Canadian border this like, roll into the small town, which is probably like three buildings. And but a big board saying the western most town in Canada, and it has one gas station one motel one gift shop. And that's it. I find I stopped there for lunch and went to this motel and it's run by an old Punjabi uncle and he was quite warm, helped me out made me some breakfast and brunch, actually, and told me about all the stories from how he's been on the Canadian government payroll for 30 years. And now he's retired and he's moved to this small town. So that's very interesting to meet him there. But yeah, and then I moved on, and I crossed over into this place called Tok, it's in Alaska. It's about four hours from the border. But it's quite beautiful. It's very nice, huge lakes and Glacier lakes filled with ice cold water from the runoffs and beautiful big mountains like chocolate brown with White Ice frosting on it. So I can only think of blackforest cakes at that time. So yeah, you're crossing and then yeah, I got to Tok. And the good thing about riding in summer is especially that far up north is it's broad daylight for a really long time, like the sun would be up to like 10 o'clock or something. So. So you know, I had to, I decided to just write further up north because I had a friend waiting for me there. So wrong choice. I should have stayed. Because I had already covered a lot of distance, and I was tired. So yeah, I made a few mistakes, didn't see what I was doing where I was going and I ended up getting a car and totaling my motorcycle. Yeah, that was the end of my trip. I basically saw the rest of Alaska from the back of a van. As my friend came to rescue me and then eventually flew back out. My bike is still there probably under the snow in some wreckage yard. Yeah. As that's those are the highs and lows. So I have to go back and finish my trip. Canadian side.

Subu

So you're in the middle of nowhere in Tok, Alaska, and then you total your bike. Right? And how do you get out of that? I mean, who's who do you call to come and help you at that point?

Sampath

Oh, yeah, at that point. I was lucky in a way because I hit this guy right outside the town of Tok. And the first person on the scene was an off duty EMS guy, so he knew exactly who to call. And within like, within 15-20 minutes, I had the ambulance at my site, and they took good care of me actually stayed the night at the EMS chiefs house is like yeah, I don't think you'll find a motel now. Why don't you just stay at my place. And they fed me and was quite nice, actually. Very warm people.

Subu

Amazing. So you didn't go to the hospital? Basically, the guy came to take care of you. And the EMS guy pretty much took you home and fed you and gave you a couch to sleep on.

Sampath

Pretty much. That's it. I slept on the couch. And I couldn't have asked for more at that point. That was that was very comforting. And I had a friend waiting for me in Fairbanks, who I call and then he drove down the next day and helped me get out of there. I could salvage what I could have the motorcycle and put them all in a big bag. And yeah, just flew back a few days later.

Vikram

So technically speaking for somebody who goes on these long road trips, right? What is your contingency plan for situations like this? Because there are long stretches you do ride where there's nothing. So what what is one supposed to plan for so that they are ready in case they don't get lucky?

Sampath

Well, derisk as much as possible. So I tried to de risk in many ways. First, I'll learn as much as they can about, let's say my wake so I try to learn about my motorcycle, how to fix it, if something goes wrong, I'm not a natural when it comes to all of that. So I actually have to pay attention to it and learn it and keep trying to keep it in mind. It's like okay, this is how this thing works. And this is how that works. And I try to keep a good toolkit with me. I run through drills at home when I how to fix my motorcycle, even though I know it's it's easier to drop it off at the service station to do the maintenance and stuff for it. I do it myself. So that's one thing so that's de risking the vehicle de risking your own choices I try to limit myself to driving during daytime I don't drive at night or right at night so that takes off all dimension of takes the dimension of the plate because now you're not at the mercy of nighttime drivers anymore. So that's something I do try to learn as much about the place the places I'm going to the route so a lot of these things come in once you have enough data I think you can the sense of confidence kind of comes back and then you might you might feel brave enough to do it. Yeah. And of course yeah, I also took a lot of first aid courses so I carry a very extensive first aid kit with myself I was part of the the emergency response team at work so they're pretty good that way they train their employees to respond to emergencies and what's the how to handle situations how to, you know, fix broken arm, how to stop blood flow how to do all those things, right? So as uncomfortable it might be, it's actually quite a good skill to have. So I might need it, my people I'm traveling with might need it, so it's always a good skill to have.

Vikram

And it's also, as you mentioned, part of it is like riding with a buddy is always the best option, right?

Sampath

Yes, that's true. I mean, it's especially if the going gets tough and you keep dropping your motorcycle, you need somebody to help you pick it up. So it's always good to have a buddy riding with you and share the banter. Because riding motorcycles is a very solo experience in itself because you're inside a helmet and you're just riding right. So you can, we do have these Bluetooth communicators these days. So you can talk from while riding but usually it's pretty silent and you're just focused on the road and staying in the moment. Really.

Subu

I'm guessing that the reason you do these long cross country journeys is part of the experience is the silence, right?

Sampath

Yes, it is the the the silence and the solitude really is, is quite something I do like that. I do like the meditative aspect of riding for a really long time i don't i don't really enjoy dry riding my motorcycle to work and back. It's too short of a drive for me. I really get into the zone after maybe a couple of days of riding really.

Subu

So is there a another reason? Like is there a primary reason why you seek out these long trips and do them? I mean, like, silence maybe is one aspect of it. But is there another primary reason why you get out on the bike? I mean, is it the accomplishment? Or I mean, something like that?

Sampath

Yeah, I mean, I did think about it at some point. It's like, why do I do this? I mean, there's a very cliched statement that people make right? If you want to understand yourself, look into your past, sort of things. So if you want to know why you're doing something today to just look back into childhood. And that usually there is some answers out there, if not all. Yeah, when I was a kid, I used to read a lot of adventure novels and classic novels like 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea or journey to the center of the earth, read about Marco Polo, people discovering the new world and all that stuff, it was quiet, it probably left an impact on my mind, exploring the new world seeking seeing places for the first time that nobody else has ever seen and meeting people experiencing cultures. Of course, these days, that is all it's just a fantasy, you don't have that anymore, because you can sit at home and watch everything on YouTube. So at some point, I was kind of dejected. It's like what the hell man, everything's explored, I'd have nothing left to do. But then I realized that everybody else's might have seen it, or somebody might have seen everything, but I have not seen it myself find out. I mean, because I remember listening about Yukon and the northern territories, when I was much younger in all these National Geographic videos that we show up on national channel. And that was quite was quite nice to, you know, finally be there and over land, over landing basically the slow travel right through the through the landscape. And by immersing yourself into it, you're exposed to it in in real sense, except that you have protective clothing on but you will feel the cold, you will feel the smell, you can smell the changes in the vegetation, lack of it also you can you can feel the elevation change, you can feel the temperature change. And so it was quite nice. I think that's it's very fun experience. So I have driven to places in my in my car and my truck, but doesn't substitute riding with riding on a motorcycle or two wheel.

Subu

Yeah. completely exposed in a way, right?

Sampath

Yeah, you do feel a bit vulnerable at times, like I was riding through Yukon and I came across this herd of bison, buffaloes and wild ones. They were just out there by the side of the road. Some of them were on the road as well. So I just stopped far away and take a photo or video of them. And then I soon realized like if they charge at me, yeah, I can't do anything. Right? I can't I can't hide behind the bike. They'll just toss it around. It's not heavy How mamy Bison are we talking about here? Just so I get a picture. for them or anything. They're like 10-15 Bison

Vikram

Thats plenty even one can do plenty of damage.

Sampath

Yeah, I just took a few photos and got back on the bike and sped out. Sped away actually. Yeah, yeah. So. So the whole episode was quite nice. You just kept going up north and then soon it started raining and then it rained. It was pretty much raining all day. I was just riding through cold rain and it wasn't fun. But that's the thing about motorcycling you probably hate every bit of it as you're doing it. As soon as it's done. It's like oh wait, I can't wait to go back and do it again. So you're really miserable through the trip, but you really enjoy it once the trip is done. So it's one of those things. There's a lot of such self punishing or suffering that you go through, climbing mountains is one of them, right? I'm absolutely sure that climbing mountains covered in snow and doing all of that is is not fun when you're in it, so but it's the thrill of it that makes you stay very focused, be alive, I guess, in a way. So yeah, that's that's one aspect of it, which is quite quite exhilarating for me.

Subu

These days, like with Google Maps, it is very easy to over plan your trip, right? I mean, for, for us civilians, who typically go to say Hawaii or go to some cushy destination, or go to say, France or Italy or wherever it is, most people typically plan the heck out of the trip, right? You exactly know where you're going to land. You've seen these Google street maps, and you know how the whole front of the hotel you're living it is, is going to look, and you have all of your cabs and trips and everything else booked much ahead of time. And when we look at just our parents generation, right, I mean, just this maybe a short 15-20 years ago, traveling to a new country was not so easy, like you will just land there, and you have to sort of figure it out. You have some sort of an idea. Maybe you may have read it in some books, but there is no Internet, and there are no blogs to go and read by someone spoken about their experience. So do you think that like right now, since if, since you can plan the heck out of a trip, Is it taking away from the experience? I mean, do you plan the heck me in your case, I understand if you want to plan your trip? Because I mean, safety is like a thing, but generally, what do you

Sampath

Yeah, I mean, there is people get off on planning as well. I mean, a lot of people just plan don't execute, they don't enjoy executing as much as they enjoy planning. That's a real thing these days, unfortunately. But yeah, I used to plan I used to plan quite a bit because I didn't know how else to travel. But these days, I don't plan. I just have a general outline of what I want to do, and how maybe the route would be and all that stuff. But I like to leave chance I like to give chance and opportunity. You know,

Vikram

give chance, a chance,

Sampath

give chance a chance. Yes, I wanted I and it has so far worked well. I mean, there's the illusion of control that we have a it's hard to give that up. So but I did give it up on many of my last few of my last trips. And it was quite nice. And it didn't make the trip any different from before. It was just that the veil has been lifted.

Vikram

Can I argue that it actually improves your quality of your trip because you're not on an agenda. Because once you create a highly planned trip, you're always thinking of, oh, I have to get to this point by this day, like according to my plan and stuff like that. But when you kind of go a little bit more open, it opens up your experience to be nicer.

Sampath

Yeah, definitely, you don't have any expectations anymore. And the key to enjoying anything is having well, almost low to no expectations really. And then everything will exceed your expectations. So you'll enjoy it.

Vikram

And part of traveling is things go wrong, right? I mean, landing up in ER is kind of the worst case scenario, but you could go wrong in many places. Like even if you're flying you could miss a flight or you're delayed you're stuck in traffic, whatever it is so many unknowns in a travel agenda one can have but if you don't have a strategic plan you have to stick to those things may not annoy you anymore. You take it in stride of this is how traveling is. I may make it to the flight, I may not, if not maybe I'll spend the night at the chief of emergency response. His house is fine.

Sampath

Yeah, I mean, I think the in my limited experience I would like to think that there is a distinction between a tourist and a traveler I know it's it's all semantics, but there is there is I would like to think that there is a distinction. And I think of myself more as a traveler than a tourist I'm not necessarily out there to see all the the sights and stuff Yeah, so for me the whole part the whole like start to finish is the point right? Not like just a few moments in between where you get to see certain places and take a selfie with them. I tried actually I've never taken selfies

Subu

Man that's such a that's such a fantastic thought. Yeah, don't be a tourist be a traveler.

Vikram

Journey before destination if I have to quote the popular quotes of today. Isn't it part of the Brandon Sanderson saga.

Subu

Only you read that garbage?

Vikram

Hey don't go judging my book choices.

Sampath

I mean the thing with that is that it never ends right? I mean you are always a traveler, you will be a tourist once in a while. But traveling is forever. Just travelled through life as well in the same fashion. It just doesn't end really.

Subu

You know that makes sense. Actually framing it in that way makes a lot of sense. Because just displacing yourself from your everyday life right? I mean, you have your surroundings that city where you live and work in and just moving your body from that to a different city. Makes you feel a different way makes you think different thoughts. And if you travel long enough, I mean, so the whole journey of the travel, you are you're sort of experiencing a different self.

Sampath

Yeah, yeah, I would like to quote a quote a phrase I read, I was in Truth and Consequences in New Mexico a few weeks ago. And that was at a outdoor outfitters or something of a store, like an REI or something, a local store there. And they had this beautiful phrase, written on top of the changing room, it said, Life begins outside your comfort zone. So I think I remember that. And yeah, it kind of the more you move, the less you're in your comfort zone, the more uncertain things are and the more fluid things can get. And that that does make it seem more interesting and fulfilling, if you will, I don't know it depends on our mindset you have really, sometimes that might not be what you want, but it always definitely at least makes you feel more present because you are facing something that is not routine. And routine does have this key quality of making you complacent and forget, forget the like how do I say this? You forget the the fact that the moment is all that you have really, and you start leaning on the past and the future? A lot. Because the routine is not interesting enough. Sometimes. You have

Vikram

How long have you been doing this motorcycle trips? By right now like? Yeah,

Sampath

this would actually mark my 10th year of our since I started doing this, it doesn't seem like a lot actually come to think of it. But I what you might call a late bloomer. In that means I did take my time to Yeah, I didn't take my time to start off on doing things that I really wanted to do. Because it takes time to understand what it is that one wants to do in life. I don't think I'm there yet. But it is it's a journey, right self discovery. So I do spend time, it did take me a while to understand what it is that I want to do with my time, really.

Vikram

So do you think like, say five years ago, you would have seen yourself where you are today doing these trips to the Arctic Ocean? Or is there something you would not even imagine that you could have done five years ago? Well,

Sampath

I mean, five years ago is when I did my first attempt at it. So that's not a timescale. See, if you had said this, maybe 10 to maybe almost, let's say, 15 years ago, yeah, I wouldn't have thought about it.

Subu

So Vikram hear this out ok? So I really got a commend Sampath on this one. See, let me answer your question. Basically, when we were roommates like 10 or 12 years ago, every weekday night, we would have a busy day of work, right? And we would come back home and every day with dinner, Sampath used to sit and watch these two documentaries. So the two documentaries, one is called Long Way Round. And the other one is called Long Way Down with these two bikers. One of them is this popular actor Ewan McGregor, who plays Obi Wan Kenobi in the Star Wars, right? It is him and his buddy, who take two bikes. And they document that whole trip, the first document is called Long Way Down. So they start from wherever they're in Scotland or somewhere and go all the way from Scotland, down into Africa, to like, I guess, Cape Town or South Africa or somewhere. And a few years later, they do this trip long way around where they start from Scotland. And they go east, all all by road, by the way, and go through Russia, ride the bikes, all the way to Russia, come around to Alaska and come to US and finally end up in New York. So 12 years ago, Sampath didn't own a motorbike, nothing. He didn't have any of that. I don't think he even thought of the fact that he would ever own a bike and be riding now. But every night he used to sit and watch these two documentaries for months.

Vikram

Definitely putting this in the show notes. I might watch this.

Subu

Because all that I did. I was basically sitting there and eating curd rice and watching along with him. Right. It was good entertainment factor for me. But this guy was clearly it was clearly that documentary was affecting him in a completely different way. Because 10 years from then he has achieved he sort of sought after his goal. And he is he's been able to get his feet more than wet.

Sampath

There was one more report, which was I think it was the the first American road trip or something of that nature. Name, Matt. It was about the challenge laid down by some people in a club in San Francisco in the early 1900s. This strange new thing called the horseless carriage, which was basically the first automobile and then people were betting they say you can drive this thing all the way to New York from here, it's never going to happen. So in 1905, or 1910, I don't remember the date. But this one guy just took that challenge up and then actually did it he wrote this drove one of those cars from San Francisco to New York and beat there actually, it was a challenge because a lot of other people are doing at the same time. So they managed to beat and beat them all and make it so I thought like if people can do it in 1905 with no roads, I can definitely do it in 2005.

Subu

So wait a minute. Now. You know this so you're obsessively watching these documentaries like 20 years ago, right up at the end, Vikram, his obsession was to such an extent that when he is not watching these, when he's not watching the video of these documentaries, he's listening to the soundtrack from those documentaries during the day, right, that's the level of his obsession. So when you were watching those documentaries, I've never asked you this question. Did you ever think that you would actually buy a bike and get into this kind of adventure at that point?

Sampath

Oh, yeah, definitely. I mean, that was the whole point of it. I mean, I was not watching it for entertainment. Really, I was just watching it for showing for notes in I was just mentally making notes about okay, this is what you do when you're in Mongolia. This what you do when you're in Russia. And I was supplementing all of that with online forums and everything, which this is like, there are many resourceful websites out there, like ADV rider comes to mind. And then there's horizons Unlimited, as well. Of course, this is mostly for motorcycle writers. Now, there's more for when you consider van life and other stuff. But these guys just talk about round the world trips, like they are called RDW's. And I was I was my head a different agenda when he's watching all of this really.

Subu

Moving on from motorcycle trips, right? I want to explore this whole thing of looking within, introspection. The word meditation and mindfulness gets thrown around a lot. But amongst all of our friends, like all all the people I know, I think that you seem to practice mindfulness and introspection in a legitimate way. And one of you one of your other journeys that you've had, is this this Vipassana, why don't you tell us what Vipassana is?

Sampath

Well, full disclaimer, I'm not an expert, and not an authority on any of this. But I'll give you my version of what it is, and which was basically every after every, after every set, really, if you just look at the basics of it, it is it's a 10 day meditation retreat you it's a silent meditation retreat, in the sense, you don't talk for 10 days. So then you pretty much meditate 10 hours a day. That's the timetable. It's fixed. Basically, they have their many centers worldwide and their timetable, their schedule is fixed, what the whole idea is, basically spend time with yourself, really, you try to understand what it is, that's happening to you, you do that for 10 hours a day, you have a chance to have breakfast and lunch, you might get a little bit of light snack, which is maybe some fruits in the evening, if you're a first timer. But if you have, if not a first timer, you don't get that either, you might just get hot water with lemon. So needless to say, you're also doing like serious amount of intermittent fasting calorie restriction and everything. And it's it's quite a detox literally, physically and mentally. So yeah, you're meditating 10 hours a day, you do have some sort of instruction, it's the recorded audio of the guy who popularized it, he has a good way of explaining what is happening and what one is supposed to do. So you spend the first few days meditating in a certain way, I'm using the word meditating here quite loosely. And then you spend the next few days doing another style, and you kind of go deeper into your own self. I know that's a very vague statement. But the whole idea here is to observe sensations really, on your, on your body, right? The reality that we perceive is just through the sensations, the sensation of light sensation of smell, sound, and you get all these feedback from all the senses that we have, and then you construct your reality with it in how I perceive reality may be very different from how you perceive reality. Subu I know you're colorblind, well, sort of atleast for a few colors, you know, how I see the color red might not be how you see color, right? And which is actually true in this case, maybe but for Vikram in a year, and I would probably see things differently. And but we have agreed on that, hey, this color that we see is red. Right? So So yeah, so I mean, this whole and then we get lost in this reality, so called Reality and then we keep adding to it layers upon layers, and soon we don't know where we are. And then I mean, if it was all good, then it's great. Right? But we still struggle we still have this conflict and feelings that we want that something's not right. Right. So you so you know, I what I did was he probably went the other way went inwards to figure out what's not right what's what's happening. And the Vipassana is actually a great way of doing that. No, I do like the format. And I the fact that they are they don't charge money, per se. I mean, you just pay forward, what you pay is actually used for the next set of students to come in. So you are benefiting from someone else's donation,

Subu

pay it forward.

Sampath

Pay it forward. Yeah, and it's quite nice that way. And I've done it a few times, not nearly enough, but every time I go it's a different different experience, build things off your you're a different person each time you start, right so it's it's but each time is beneficial. And I do find it quite useful.

Vikram

The Vipassana aspect of not speaking. So is it because when we talk all the time, or try to express our own views about We are thinking and is that a distraction from actually feeling the senses? Is that why silence is focus in a vipassana retreat?

Sampath

Yeah, I would like to think so, we are overwhelmed our senses, and those are overwhelmed with stimulus really, we like everything's screaming for attention, everything screaming for some interaction with right, your phones, your TVs, and network and, and all sorts of things that people are messaging all the time. So there's like constant sense of stimulus. And we're kind of used to it right? We like when was the last time you sat around being bored, right? Doing nothing, like, used to be the case, we could do that, at some point we would find, find other things to do. But just sitting around is something that we don't do anymore. And that's actually, I would say, it's a lost art, it has a lot of value.

Vikram

I remember feeling distinctly feeling bored as a kid. There was no Netflix, there were no tablets, there was no constant influx of Twitter, or Facebook or any such thing. So I clearly remember the feeling of being bored. And whenever my kids now say, like, I'm so bored, I'm like

Sampath

boredom breeds creativity. But of course, this is not like a it's not a digital detox camp. Right? That's not what it is. I mean, it kind of does that. But it's, it's it's a little bit more nuanced than that. I do feel that there's, there's a lot of value to understand the connection between how you experience your surroundings and how you react to it. And where is the connection? How does the reaction happen? Who's reacting, really? And is there a connection between the two or not first to to be aware of all that? That's, that's a? That's a big step, I think.

Vikram

So when we go into a vipassana retreat, right. So how exactly does it go? So they this this invite you to stay quiet the whole time? Is it like a requirement that you don't talk at all? If you say a few words, is that looked down upon? Will they just turn you out immediately? How does it work?

Sampath

I have not worked? Yes, they don't. It's it's a request, right? It's a request for something called as noble, noble silence, right? They ask you to stay silent for your own sake, and for the other person sick, okay, you're here to do some work. You're not it's not a spa retreat, right? It's a meditation retreat. So you're, you're here to do work, work on yourself. And so they request you to turn your cell phones, your notebooks, no, no reading, no writing, no talking, or you cut out all stimulus, really. And they the one of the places I went to was an old church. So they even covered all the paintings and whatever was on the wall, that draped it with with white sheets, just so that there's nothing really that causes any sort of stimulus. It's when when the external stimulus dies, right? That's when you start noticing all the confusion and noise that's inside your brain, your mind and then that gives you that helps you first of all, you you become aware of it, which is I think, is a big victory in itself, right. And even most of the times we just forget about all that. And then we living so superficially. So getting away being aware of all that noise and confusion, which which we are constantly part of, or as part of us is a big win. And you have to be silent for that people do talk, it's theirs. It's their loss I guess so you're not forced to interact with anybody. And they even ask you not to look people in the eye, just keep to yourself, it does have the first few days are a little bit challenging. If you do feel like you're under some gulag, or something, standing in line for food.

Vikram

Do you actually find it hard to stop yourself from saying something? Because it's such a natural tendency for us to keep saying things every day? Do you find like for the first few days that you have to hold yourself back?

Sampath

i Well, I didn't have that problem. Really. I'm very quiet by nature. In that sense, it was actually trouble for me to talk. This is quite hard on me right now. But yeah, it's not to be honest, I have I have had the My dad taught me a little bit about meditation early on, so I was not a stranger to it. And that helped a lot. So I did spend some time in meddling with other kind, all different styles of meditation, I didn't really know what meditation is, I still don't actually, it's a it's a very heavily overloaded word. So it means a lot of things these days.

Vikram

But when did you first start to get into meditation? Or? I mean, the Vipassana is probably a form of it, I suppose. But when did you first get into meditation overall, like as a child are much later,

Sampath

much later in life, really? Because getting into meditation, as we call it? Yeah, definitely much later. But I've always been very introspective. So I would always think about things, which is also a way to say I meditate on things. So like I said, it's a very overly used word. So I can use it in any I can mold it into whatever way I want. So yeah,

Vikram

I was listening to this Andrew Huberman podcast episode where He says that there is a, a time limit that a person must minimum meditate in a day. And that gives an enormous amount of health and mental benefits. And he says, that's actually 17 minutes, I linked a podcast episode in the show notes. He said, You have to meditate for 17 minutes a day. That's how much you need. And you will see notable differences in your life and well being. Yeah,

Sampath

I mean, I have not done any studies myself, but from going for personal experience, I think trying to get something out of it. And then doing doing it with that agenda is actually doesn't make sense to me, because then you're just trying to follow some set routines and expecting something out of it. And like I said earlier, having low expectations of zero expectations is actually the key. So I just, I think it's more of a way of life, you just live in a certain way. And it's not like, Okay, I'm going to do 17 minutes, and that's going to extend my telomeres or make increased longevity and reduce aging, all that stuff is great. Maybe they are side effects or something. But I don't think that should be the goal. Really, we're missing the point. If you're doing that.

Vikram

Do you feel anything noticeably different since you started doing it? However, since 10, before you were doing it? Or how has it changed your life in a way that you can ascribe to meditation?

Sampath

Yeah, I think it has changed. I mean, unfortunately, change is also an overloaded word, because we change all the time. So if you say, Have you changed from what you were 10-15 years ago, I would say yes, I have changed, I've changed for the better for the worse, I would like to think for the better. But change is going to happen no matter what this was one part of it, and maybe an aspect of change that I have all my life that I that I lead. So I don't know. I mean, I don't know how to answer your question. Really. It's a I would like to think it has changed, given me more access to myself, I certainly believe that we, we are conditioned beyond beyond belief, really, I mean, we are so conditioned, that it's hard to get rid of all the conditioning, no matter what you try. And maybe in the end, it's not even about getting rid of conditioning. Really. Yeah. Because that may not be the point at all. So and I do spend some amount of time trying to understand when when my you know, reaction and my interaction with life is conditioned, or or not, right? I mean, where is it coming from? From? Where is it coming from? Where is where am I coming from? Really? What is my goal here? What's my intent with, with what I'm doing?

Vikram

So what is an example of a condition reaction in life? For example? What What would you say?

Sampath

I have, let's have been labeled as a shy child have been nice, like, oh, yeah, he's quiet, he doesn't really speak much. So it's like, okay, oh, I'm supposed to be quiet. I shouldn't be speaking much. So sometimes when I'm in social settings, I might not be speaking much, because well, that's how I'm supposed to be right. So I'm stopping myself from, from doing certain things. So that's how that's how we are really, I mean, we've all been to school, we've all behaved in a certain way. And we get feedback for sometimes positive, sometimes negative. So if you get negative feedback, you stop behaving in a certain way, you get positive feedback, you behave in that way. So it's, we use that to form our own images of ourselves. That's the way we are really,

Subu

yeah, that's a good lesson for a parent actually know, while you think something to watch out for as you raise a child, sometimes you don't do it on purpose, right as you watch your child growing up. And if you notice, certain shy tendencies in that person in the child, I think you've got to watch out and not try to like, not not try to discard some stuff and try to sort of unintentionally label your own child, right? You're explaining it away, because based on a certain impression that you have, and the child hasn't developed this impression, but you're turning at some point, the child is going to grow up and go to understand what he's saying and sort of imbibe it and say, Oh, my parents think this is how I am and maybe this is how I am. So I have a this question that Vikram asked about, hey, Sampath, you've been through these introspective journeys, and do you notice a change? Right? I have a conundrum associated with that. I want to know what do you guys think about this? Okay. Generally in life, there are certain events that are typically considered life changing experiences, like say, having a child, it's like a new beginning for you, or say, like a loss of a loved one or something like the very first time you go to a vipassana retreat, right at 10 days of silence. You've never done something like in life. So situations like these are supposed to be profound moments, right? I mean, when those moments happen, you experience these feelings which you've never experienced before you experience these sensations, which are absolutely new. You're sitting for 10 days and just submerge in your own thoughts. Now, at the moment when a life changing experience like this happens, I do feel a certain change in myself. I do feel The sense of realisation I kind of feel like, man, I've grown up in life, this experience has changed me. But my problem has been that this feeling of realization, this feeling that this feeling of change you experience in yourself is always short lived. Like, within a couple of weeks, if I were to go, Sampath invited me to this Vipassana retreat many times, and I always politely declined saying that I don't think I'm ready for it. Right. And one of the reasons I say that is because I feel like, I may feel different, I may have these realizations when I'm there. But a couple of weeks later, when I get back to my usual routine of life, and I get back to the usual elements, which stress me out are the usual day to day happenings, I just revert back to my default state, I just come back to my usual foolish self, right? I mean, so when I'm in this 10 day meditation retreat, and they feel like, okay, you know what, I have this. I know what I know how I should live my life. That's what I come back with. But two weeks later, it feels like a distant memory. And I just get back to my usual self of just letting small things at work stress me out. And it's, it's as if I never went to vipassana. I mean, nothing really came out of it. Do you have any thoughts on that kind of thing? reverting to a default state?

Sampath

Yeah, I mean, see, I, I have this problem where I always try to reduce everything to its very basic emotion really, a one of the things that they talk about in vipassana is noticing your cravings for any particular sensation, or aversion for a sensation, like Oh, my, my knees hurting, and that kind of you don't want it hurt, obviously. So especially if you're sitting for like, 10 hours, every day, your knees start to hurt, definitely in I don't care who you are, they will hurt. But the point is, what do you do with it? Right? Like, does it consume you? Does it make you hurtful person? It does? Does it make you as a person like, Oh, I'm consumed with this pain? And that's, that defines me, right? So that's in that realization is actually quite profound. And that is, so once you have like, what they say, once you've peaked beyond a certain boundary, you can't unsee it, you can't unsee certain experiences. So you don't bring with you the the equanimity and the calmness that you had in those 10 days, and say, okay, yeah, that is what I should aim for. Now, that's not what that is not your carry away from the whole thing. Really, what you need to what you're really carrying away from this whole experience is the understanding of how your how your craving and aversion really works. Right. So and applying that to the moment that you're in, right. And that moment might be, let's say, when you're back a week or so later, like the afterglow. So if you, if you have an experience like this, it sure is great, and you will be very zenned out and it's not gonna last, nothing less. Like that's another thing that you learn. Everything is ephemeral. There's just a sensation rises and passes away, you can hold on to it for a while if you want. But it's going to go things change, so everything comes and goes and that the realization of that actually helps you with understanding cravings and aversions right? Even cravings and aversions come and go. So if any, at any moment in time, let's say two weeks after you come back, you're hitting the situation at work. I mean, the realization that this is not permanent, and it's ephemeral, too, is actually more important than the lost feeling of Zen, you're not going to feel zen like all the time.

Subu

No, that makes sense. So basically, what he's saying is that the, the idea is not to, if you're expecting these events, to to cause a permanent change in you, you're saying that you're expecting the wrong thing. Nothing creates a permanent change. And if you take an something like a Vipassana silent meditation retreat, for example, the whole purpose is, you go there, you think about yourself, and you come back with tools that will help you deal with daily life. So if you're a very angry person, it's not like you're going to come back from a 10 day retreat and experience no anger. It's just Yes, some stuff in life is gonna trigger you, but you just have new tools to deal with this anger. And maybe you won't be as miserable as you

Sampath

were. Yeah, I mean, the simplest thing would be just a realization that yes, I am an angry person. And that itself is quite calming. It's like obviously you're not fighting the anger or maybe fighting yourself anymore. You're not fighting the fact that why am I angry? Why I'm not supposed to be an angry person. Now, okay, you you're at peace with who you are. It's like yeah, I'm an angry person. I do get angry once in a while. That's about it. But if there's somebody who needs to be said sorry to you do that.

Vikram

Yeah. So good example. Actually, this is a good discussion we are having because in our previous podcast episode about the four light bulbs. At least one of the four light bulbs that I listed out was actually introspection. So our whole discussion today has given me a lot to think about. That's for sure. You know, you do have a career, you have motorcycles, you have other interests, like retreats, how do you find time to do all of this stuff?

Sampath

That's a good question. I think I've spent a lot of time doing a lot of things. And I, it seems like a lot, but I have spent a lot of time doing this thing. So if you compress it in in few sentences, it seems like I shouldn't, I shouldn't possibly be having all this time. But I do have the time, because I try to cut out other things from my life that I don't really want to do. I try to just keep it focused and on the things that I like, the things that resonate with me. So yeah, and well, I tried to keep the boundaries between work and my life separate, I tried to switch off from work as much as I can. So that doesn't linger into my my personal life, and I am able to extract more out of my time, the more focused you are, the more value you get out of something. So

Vikram

so when you're actually working, you're in it right, you're in in work mode, and not elsewhere. And when you are out of work mode, you're out of it, and you're now focused on whatever else you want to do.

Sampath

I'll agree with the latter part. I'm not sure. Yeah, I mean, it's, it's not it's an ideal state, right? Like it would, it's almost like a very fantastical idea of being being able to focus and compartmentalize at will really, I don't think it happens, not not not, to me, at least, I would really like to get there.

Vikram

from the whole, from the whole work from home situation. Now. However, in the last couple of years, how are you able to keep these things separate?

Sampath

I try to schedule my day. In a way, this is just recent development. But I tried, I like to schedule, what I'm going to do in the day. And that way, it's easy to put put boundaries. It's like, okay, this is all I had set out to accomplish. And I have succeeded. I have not succeeded, whatever it is, move on. Yeah. So I tried to do that. And it's, it's hard. I mean, I'm not going to say that I have cracked it. And I know how to work from home. I clearly don't, I'm just like everybody else, figuring things out the hard way, which is first hand and slow. So

Vikram

I've been trying to similar approach too. On a piece of paper every day, I have three columns. One is work. One is personal, meaning what I would like to do, and one is like a general column, which means it includes household chores, and paying bills and whatever else we all have to do as adults. And so every day I create a list. And then if something doesn't happen, I can see it and I carry it over to the next day. So I've been trying the compartmentalization thing. Subu what have you been up to? How do you deal with this thing? Do you have a separation?

Subu

Yeah, see now. Yeah, this this popular thing called bullet journaling? You don't know that you're doing it, but that's what you're doing. Okay, they're doing something called as bullet journaling. Okay? Well, you make a list of things today. And then if you don't get through it, then you move it to the next day

Vikram

people have already figured out all this,

Subu

okay, oh, my god, the guy who came up with this, like who formalized this in a way, he runs a very successful business selling something called as the bullet journal. It's like a diary, which has no page numbers and has perfect columns that you can put all of these thoughts in this form into anyway, but so I tried bullet journaling. I did that over a few months. And I tried many variations of that. Finally, what I've settled on is, I do exactly what you're doing, but I do it at the granularity of one week. So Monday morning, the first thing either Monday morning or Sunday night, whenever what I do is I have these three columns, right? I mean, so I do work, office work, and then home hobbies and then house chores kind of thing. And I write down everything that I wish to compete for that week. So I felt that doing it once a week is the perfect amount of effort. When I did it on a daily basis, it sort of got to me a little bit actually.

Vikram

Okay, one more question then what are your four light bulbs that you try to balance in your life? Sampath.

Sampath

I wish I had my notebook with me I had written things down let me recollect off the top of my head unfortunately work is one of them as much as I wouldn't like it to be but yes, I do try to do that is a necessary part of my life. So yes, work is one. I like to keep exercise or active living. I wouldn't call it exercise really, I want to live actively live healthily. So that's one part of my life. I do spend some amount of time thinking about it and making sure I execute on on that idea of introspection, general awareness of where I am, what I'm doing meditation, whatever you want to call it, right? It whatever degree I can, because every day is different, every moment is different. It's a very continuous thing, really, it just keeps changing. So just to be aware of that change and aware of what's happening around is, it's almost like a full time thing. But I tried to do that, that's one of my light bulb, if you will, my fourth light bulb, can I have five?

Vikram

you can have as many as you want, you can have Christmas its fine.

Sampath

Well, don't fragment it too much. But yeah, so I mean, the other one would be continuous learning, hobbies, all of that would be in one bucket, like, I want to make sure I'm always learning something about myself learning something about the world around me executing on my function, really. And another one would be would be family is a wonderful, that's another light bulb for me, family and friends, I value that a lot. And I spent some time making sure that I access that.

Vikram

I think it's fantastic that you have all these light bulbs dedicated to the self, and your personal self. And I think that brings about a lot of mental health, which is a challenge to a lot of people also, because we are never taught this young, we are never told that you are important, and what you feel and sense is important as well.

Sampath

So yeah, I mean, once you understanding oneself is is paramount, like like they say Know thyself, once you know yourself, it's rest of it is much easier. It's not as complicated as you think it is.

Vikram

So if somebody wants to get started on an introspective journey, where would you recommend a beginner starts from?

Sampath

Yeah, that's a tough one. A good one, too. I was reading a book called altered traits. And it's a nice book. So it's all about meditation. Really. It's, this bunch of guys are two of them. They did a lot of research from the 70s onwards, I'll just steal their recommendation. Because I think it comes from somebody who spent some time researching on this topic. They've studied all the monks and everything, the Zen and the Buddhist monks, and Vipassana itself, for that matter, they did say that you like the easiest way to do it these days is because the prevalence of smartphones is meditation apps. There's tons of them. That's a good starting point. At least, they might not, it's a good introduction. It's not like they will carry you for a long way. It's great to get your feet wet with that. I think you can you can follow all sorts of this. There's no one path or anything really, there's no one way of one style of doing it, or one thing that works and doesn't work. It's a journey of self discovery. So everybody is different. So every discovery is different.

Subu

So Sampath thanks a lot for joining us. This is a really it's a very good interesting conversation.

Sampath

Now pleasures mine I'm thanks for having me on your show, guys. I do listen to your podcast so I'm not looking forward to listening to this one. So

Vikram

thanks for coming on. Anyway, all your insight on introspection and all your adventure is quite amazing and have given me especially something to think about. I hope our listeners get something out of this as well.

Subu

So alright, thanks for listening to another episode of the half life show. You will find all the show notes at www.halfLife.show. And you can also look us up on Instagram @halflife.show and we have any thoughts, suggestions, questions or comments to slide into our DMs and send us a message. We'd love to hear from you. Thank You

9: Sampath Krishna: Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Adventure